Schneier vs. Brin

[Ronn! Blankenship]

At 03:30 PM Sunday 3/9/2008, Julia Thompson wrote:


>On Sun, 9 Mar 2008, dsummersminet at comcast.net wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Original Message:
> > -----------------
> > From: Julia Thompson degges at chiba.3jane.net
> > Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 14:47:55 -0500 (CDT)
> > To: brin-l at mccmedia.com
> > Subject: Re: Schneier vs. Brin
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, 9 Mar 2008, dsummersminet at comcast.net wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Original Message:
> >> -----------------
> >> From: Julia Thompson degges at chiba.3jane.net
> >> Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 12:34:42 -0500 (CDT)
> >> To: brin-l at mccmedia.com
> >> Subject: Re: Schneier vs. Brin
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>> In Texas, if you're an adult, you cannot be outside your residence
> >> without
> >>>> an ID.
> >> ....
> >>> On your property, I should have said.
> >>
> >>
> >> How sure are you of this Julia?  I have two reasons to question this.
> >> First, Google didn't give me any hits on this...just side hits on ID
> >> requirements for beer, etc.  Second, my daughter Neli (one of my two
> >> Zambian daughters) was in a car which was pulled over for DWB in the
> >> Woodlands.  The people in the care were asked why they were in the
> >> Woodlands.  Neli said "I live here."  She was asked for ID and she said "I
> >> don't need ID, I'm not driving."  The matter was dropped.
> >>
> >>> Given that they were pulled over for DWB, if she was legally required to
> >>> carry ID at all times, wouldn't they have mentioned that at the time.
> >>> Heck, a constible who pulls folks over for DWB is looking for someone to
> >>> arrest in my book.
> >>
> >> Dan M.
> >
> >> I've heard from black men that if they're walking out on the road in East
> >> Texas, they damn well better have ID on them, and failure to produce ID
> >> will get you in some trouble.
> >
> > Ah, that makes sense then.  There is no law against it, just like there is
> > no law against black people driving.  But, an officer has discretion
> > concerning "suspicious behavior" and the Supreme Court has said that an
> > officer can ask for an ID.  So, even though its not a law, its common sense
> > for people with certain ethnic backgrounds to carry IDs.  You or I can jog
> > in our neighborhood without them.  Heck, Neli can jog here, because the
> > police knows that she could very well be related to someone who could raise
> > holy hell.  But, a black man on an E Texas road, yea....I'll believe that.
> >
> > Dan M.
>
>And, better safe than sorry -- if I'm in someone else's car and there's a
>major crash, better for me to have ID on me so they have an easier time
>figuring out who I am.
>
>(Also, if you're an adult, you can't get into an elementary school around
>here without a driver's license.  They scan it, get info from a
>database, and print up a "visitor" sticker that has the picture from your
>license.)
>
>         Julia


I think we're getting to some sort of agreement here.

I noticed that most of Julia's initial examples seemed to have as a 
basic assumption that you were _driving_ somewhere, and of course you 
are supposed to have your drivers license (as well as proof of 
insurance and in a lot of places the vehicle registration) in your 
possession whenever you are driving.  And indeed in many 
jurisdictions a white woman, particularly if she is also 
pulchritudinous, is more likely to get a pass from the police or 
other authorities than a black man.  And, as Dan's example shows, if 
you are walking or driving in a neighborhood where you do not seem to 
fit the neighborhood demographic, particularly late at night, you may 
well be stopped and asked for ID and asked what reason you have for 
being in that place at that time, and not just in Texas.  And at any 
time of the day or night you might be stopped while walking or 
driving along if you and/or your vehicle resemble someone they are 
looking for, particularly if a crime has just occurred in the 
vicinity, and again asked for ID and why you happen to be 
there.  OTOH, when a lot of people go jogging they don't have a 
pocket big enough to carry much of anything, and indeed some folks 
may still go out running with nothing but a door key hanging on a 
lanyard around their neck so they can get back in when they are 
done.  (Though similarly to Julia's next-to-last example carrying 
some ID might be a good idea in case they get hit by a car or 
something, as well as following your mother's advice to be wearing 
clean underwear . . . )  And because of crimes which have been 
committed on the premises of such institutions it makes sense that 
you should be required to show ID and give a valid reason for being 
there if you want to enter a school or some other places.  However, 
around here at least, you can still walk your dog around the block 
without being stopped at every corner by some guy in a brown shirt 
and jackboots carrying a machine gun and saying "Your papers, please, 
comrade."  And while it's been awhile since I was last in Texas, and 
on that trip all my father and I did was take turns driving a U-Haul 
truck across the state stopping mainly at places like gas stations 
and places to eat, no one in uniform demanded to see our papers when 
we stopped nor pulled us over to ask for them, so unless things have 
changed tremendously since then I'm going to guess that things there 
are likely to be about the same as they are here . . .


-- Ronn!  :)